Wheelock's FAQ chapter 5

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Wheelock's FAQ chapter 5: Questions

Questions are listed at the top of the page and are divided into several categories. Click on the links at left and you will be taken to the question and corresponding answer below.
Category: General
GEN
I'm a bit unclear on how to use "ne" when writing a question. Specifically, if you have a compound subject or predicate, would you affix "ne" to both?
GEN

Reference Wheelock Sixth Edition "LatIna est gaudium - et Utilis!" section of Chapter 5:

The line:

SalvEte, et amIcI et amIcae meae!

I translate this line as: Greetings, my male friends and female friends!

My question: why are two 'et's used?

Category: Vocabulary
VOC
In chapter 5, there are some words listed that appear to be verbs, but they aren't listed completely, just one form - cenO, culpO, etc. Are they not really verbs? Do they only have one form? Or am I supposed to already know what the rest of it looks like?
VOC
In chapter 5, igitur is described as a postpositive word - one which does not appear as the 1st word of a sentence, but is put after the first word. I was wondering if igitur should always be the second word in a sentence, or can it go in any position (except at the beginning)?
Category: Practice/Repetition sentences (PR's)
PR3
I can't figure out how "tua" and "te" work in PR 3.
PR4
In PR 4, why are culpAs and malOrum different cases, when from what we can see, malOrum modifies culpAs?
PR11
I'm having trouble with PR 11.
PR12
In PR 12 of chapter 5 I'm not sure where to put the suffix "ne", would it (or should it) be attached to a noun or a verb?
Category: Sententia Antiquae (SA's)
SA4
Where's the verb in SA 4?
SA10
I have a question about "satis". In his study guide, Dale Grote says "Latin follows 'satis' with the genitive case..." But in SA 10 in ch. 5, "SAnus" is not in the genitive case. Why?
SA11
Does the first part of SA 11 mean "if I've ever had enough of money (turning your back on the economic rat race) or if I ever have enough money (I'm rich)!"

Wheelock's FAQ chapter 5: Answers

Category: General
GEN:
I'm a bit unclear on how to use "ne" when writing a question. Specifically, if you have a compound subject or predicate, would you affix "ne" to both?
A:

Kirk's answer:

According to Bennett's "New Latin Grammar" when the enclitic -ne is used to ask a question, "it is appended to the emphatic word (which usually stands first)".

So I would hazard the guess that you would put just one -ne in your sentence, on the word you decided to emphasize by its lead position in the sentence.

GEN:

Reference Wheelock Sixth Edition "LatIna est gaudium - et Utilis!" section of Chapter 5:

The line:

SalvEte, et amIcI et amIcae meae!

I translate this line as: Greetings, my male friends and female friends!

My question: why are two 'et's used?

A:

Kirk Lougheed" 's answer:

"et ... et" is typically translated as "both .... and".

Category: Vocabulary
VOC:
In chapter 5, there are some words listed that appear to be verbs, but they aren't listed completely, just one form - cenO, culpO, etc. Are they not really verbs? Do they only have one form? Or am I supposed to already know what the rest of it looks like?
A:

Michael's answer:

Both "ceno" and "culpo" are followed by "(1)" which means that they are *regular verbs of the first conjugation*. They are conjugated like amo or laudo and the four principal parts are:

amo, amare, amavi, amatum
laudo, laudare, laudavi, laudatum
ceno, cenare, cenavi, cenatum
culpo, culpare, culpavi, culpatum

Using the "(1)" saves a lot of needless typing. LaFleur explains this procedure in footnote 6 on page 21 (6th edition). I guess he could have made a bigger point of it. :)

VOC:
In chapter 5, igitur is described as a postpositive word - one which does not appear as the 1st word of a sentence, but is put after the first word. I was wondering if igitur should always be the second word in a sentence, or can it go in any position (except at the beginning)?
A:

"igitur" can go just about anywhere (see qualification below). It mustn't, however, break up words such as noun-adjective combinations that clearly belong together.

For example,

Therefore the handsome man gave roses to his beautiful girlfriend.

vir pulcher igitur rosas amicae formosae dedit.
or
vir pulcher amicae formosae igitur rosas dedit.
or
vir pulcher amicae formosae rosas igitur dedit.

It's a matter of what you want to stress in the sentence. But *avoid initial and final* positions. In longer sentences you'll get a feel for where "igitur" can go by speaking them out loud.

As a guide for *now*, put it after the first word unless that first word has another word closely connected to it.

In other words, keep nouns and their modifiers together. You'll develop a feel for this as time goes on and you read more Latin. Don't worry about it too much at this point. It will soon become a minor, almost unforgettable, point.

Kirk's answer:

According to Bennett's "New Latin Grammar"

1. A post-positive word is one that cannot begin a sentence, but is placed after one or more words.

2. "igitur" is regularly post-positive except in Sallust and Silver Latin.

So it would appear that igitur can wander all over the place, although it prefers the second place in a sentence

One of example of how igitur can be post-positive, but not second, is from Cicero's Pro Archia:

In his igitur tabulis nullam lituram in nomine A. Licini videtis.

Among these documents, therefore, we see no correction on the name of Aulus Licinus.

Cicero wanted to get his prepositional phrase "in his tabulis" decently started before he threw in his "igitur."

Looking in Sallust's Bellum Catalinae, he really loves igitur and it usually comes first in a sentence.

Category: Practice/Repetition sentences (PR's)
PR3:
I can't figure out how "tua" and "te" work in PR 3.
A:

Joe Ireland's answer:

Looks fairly straightforward, Lyn. Tua agrees with patria and qualifies it. Te is probably the object of vocabit. It is only the fact that they have been put side by side that makes it look a bit odd.

PR4:
In PR 4, why are culpAs and malOrum different cases, when from what we can see, malOrum modifies culpAs?
A:

Joe Ireland's answer:

Try translating malorum as "of evil men", and you will get a different slant on the sentence that will resolve your difficulty.

Patrick Dunn's answer:

Remember, an adjective can also act as a noun. In this case, I translated it "because of the fault of the evil [ones], yadda yadda yadda."

PR11:
I'm having trouble with PR 11.
A:

Michael's answer:

Try thinking it out this way:

poeta (the poet, Nominative case)
dabat (was giving / kept on giving, Verb in Imperfect Tense)
amicae (to his girlfriend, Dative--indirect object)

Now what was he giving her? There are three items in the Accusative case:

  1. multas rosas
  2. dona pulchra, (et)
  3. basia

'rosa' is first declension feminine, so Accusative plural is 'rosas' (modified by 'multas')
'donum' is second declension neuter, so Acc. pl. is 'dona' (modified by 'pulchra')
'basium' is second declension neuter, so Acc. pl. is 'basia' (no adjectival modifier here)

They are connected by 'et'

So what is the poet giving to his girlfriend? Answer: multas rosas (and) pulchra dona (and) basia.

[Yes, 'amicae' could be Genitive singular, but not in this sentence. It wouldn't make sense. It would mean "the poet of the / a girlfriend was giving x, y and z." --- an incomplete thought on its own. (and slightly odd to boot: how many of your girlfriends have resident poets? even in Roman time personal poets were scarce. :) ]

['dona pulchra' is plural and *can appear* to be in apposition to 'multas rosas'. However, in this sentence it's part of a list of items he's giving her. And ask yourself: if you received "many roses", would you write in English that they were "beautiful giftS" or "a beautiful gift"? This is not the greatest guideline for translation; it's only meant to be an aid in translating this sentence.]

PR12:
In PR 12 of chapter 5 I'm not sure where to put the suffix "ne", would it (or should it) be attached to a noun or a verb?
A:
"Ne" attaches to the word you're asking the question about. So if you read PR
12 as emphasizing "remain" ("Will it remain, or not?"), then put the -ne on the
verb. If you feel it's emphasizing "war and destruction" ("Will war and
destruction do this, or will something else do it?) then put the -ne on a
noun.
Category: Sententia Antiquae (SA's)
SA4:
Where's the verb in SA 4?
A:

Mary's answer:

Your verb is the first word of the sentence. Supera.

SA10:
I have a question about "satis". In his study guide, Dale Grote says "Latin follows 'satis' with the genitive case..." But in SA 10 in ch. 5, "SAnus" is not in the genitive case. Why?
A:
Good question. I had to go all the way to the Oxford Latin Dictionary to find
an answer. "Satis" is used in two senses, as a noun and as an adverb. When it is
used as a noun (e.g. "Do you have enough money?"), it is indeed followed by the
genitive. When it is used as an adverb ("Are you rich enough?") it isn't. In the
Wheelock sentence, it's an adverb, modifying "are", not a noun.
SA11:
Does the first part of SA 11 mean "if I've ever had enough of money (turning your back on the economic rat race) or if I ever have enough money (I'm rich)!"
A:

Joe Ireland's answer:

It's not ambiguous in Latin, Andy. Another way of thinking of "satis" is "sufficient". He means when he's rich - or at least rich enough to look after his material needs.


Last updated Thu Nov 13 17:09:48 GMT 2003

FAQ ©2003 by its creator Gary Bisaga and Meredith Minter Dixon. Copyright to FAQ answers is retained by their authors.